• In May and June of 2020 the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation’s flagship program “Ideas,” a longstanding public affairs radio vehicle, mounted two hour-long episodes devoted to the 1962 Massey Lectures, for which Frye delivered “Six Talks for Radio,” later published as The Educated Imagination. Frye scholar/educator Deanne Bogdan and CBC producer Sean Foley are in conversation about whether and how Frye’s 1962 ideas on the educational value of literature still has a purchase on the imagination of today’s readers. These two strangers, separated by a generation and sequestered in their homes by the Covid pandemic, reflect, in the first May 27th episode, on Frye’s conception of literature as his giant meta-critical cosmogony –“the order of words” – and its role in shaping the social imagination; the second episode focuses on “real readers reading” as embodied persons with their own “feeling, power, and location problems” (Deanne Bogdan, Re-educating the Imagination: Toward a Poetics, Politics, and Pedagogy of Literary Engagement (Heinemann, 1992).